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New oversight body, at what point do you think that new body will risk meddling in actualjournalism? is that a concern for you? yeah, there's a huge problem here, which is almost all of our systems are about post—transmission. they're about once something has gone wrong, how do you investigate it and put it right? and there's a real problem with intervening too early because the danger is that a complaint can be an attempt to stop the programme going out. so i don't think there's an easy solution to this at all. there's not an easy solution. jane, you're nodding. tell me what's your take on ...

I think the fundamental problem is that when things go this badly wrong, it's very hard for organisations to look after themselves. they need some sort of external intervention to see how things are really happening. i mean, i think, in a way, what's going on at present is a good example of how the news system is stronger. because what's going on now is, as i understand it, that the chairman has asked the new bbc board's editorial standards committee, which has a couple of very strong editorial figures on it — ian hargreaves and robbie gibb, they have asked them to look into things like how ...