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Reckless. >> joining me former cia terror official phil mudd. and knows when it comes to vladimir putin, cornered, reckless, defensive, what do you think that means, phil? >> i'm taking this, first, john, from looking fernlt the cia director director burns who i know, he's a subdued understated individual. he's been around for a long time he knows the russians. so when you look at what saying, you got to take it at face value. if you're sitting in the situation room in the white house, you got to make sure you don't transition from what you think to what you know. you think based on washington...

Horizon or his actions are more instinctual? >> i think his planned horizon is nonexistent. he acts on instincts. he's actually fairly consistent. but he have seen he has no ability to plan for the future. >> i disagree. >> aerial, explain that. why do you disagree? there is a strategy to his actions in crimea and elsewhere. >> marsha, you wrote a book on putin, you know that he said in 2005 that the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century was the collapse of the soviet union. his lifetime project now is the eurasian union for the 21st century, which is his afernlt to rectify this alleged his...