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On a fresh monday night, we're fortunate to have these first three former chief of staff at cia and pentagon. annie karni, white house reporter for "the new york times" and philip rucker, pulitzer prize winning white house bureau chief for the "washington post." annie, i'd like to begin with you. do you, indeed, fueled by your reporting or simple observations, see this as a theme? >> it's certainly a theme. he likes to go to the brink. it's brinksmanship. threaten some severe action, and the last minute pull it back. now, the question is here, is he achieving policy goals through this style of...

Three former chief of st staff at cia and pentagon. annie karni, white house reporter for "the new york times" and philip rucker, pulitzer prize winning white house bureau chief for the "washington post." annie, i'd like to begin with you. do you, indeed, fueled by your reporting or simple observati observations, see this as a theme? >> it's certainly a theme. he likes to go to the brink. it's brinksmanship. threaten some severe action, and the last minute pull it back. now, the question is here, is he achieving policy goals through this style of governing? the answer is sometimes a little bit...

>> the card he has left to play is resign and avoid a criminal trial. and i think that that's going to become an increasingly likely possibility as the facts come out and the american public realizes they got a guy in office who has lied to the american people, who has committed felonies, and is in deep violation of his oath to take care that the laws be faithfully executed and uphold the constitution of the united states. >> so, barbara, you see, perhaps, why that got our attention and so many of these stories that we cover have a slow rolling kind of aftereffect. these are friday's documents...

Possibility as the facts come out and the american public realizes they got a guy in office who has lied to the american people, who has committed felonies, and is in deep violation of his oath to take care that the laws be faithfully executed and uphold the constitution of the united states. >> so, barbara, you see, perhaps, why that got our attention and so many of these stories that we cover have a slow rolling kind of aftereffect. these are friday's documents we're still talking about, after all. so as it has sunk in to you, what is the legal peril, in your view, for this president, near t...

Faithfully executed and uphold the constitution of the united states. >> so barbara, you see perhaps why that got our attention and so many of these stories that we cover have a slow rolling kind of aftereffect. these are friday's documents we're still talking about, after all. so as it has sunk in to you, what is the legal peril, in your view, for this president, near term and far? >> well, near term, i think that the statement that was made in the filing by the southern district of new york is a very serious one that says that individual 1, which we know to be president trump, directed micha...