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He has a good idea about what mueller and company have about the president, if he can release that as opposed to the government coming down like an anvil all at once, it will be more palatable to the public and less shocking when it comes out. >> martha: there is the effort to lower the expectations, we heard about this, we know about this, it's out there in the bloodstream a little bit. >> that means rudy takes the hits in the interim and he is taking them. >> martha: quote from the new yorker, do you ever worry that will be your legacy, does that worry you in any way and his response is abso...

Here in washington. guess what? the next crisis is likely going to be bigger, longer, and i'm possible to control. the president's long time lawyer and fixer has agreed to temperature publicly. democrats are going to have to draez kashlly with this one. while he admitted to lying about some matters, we're going to talk to a top democrat in just a few minutes to find out the scope, what can they talk to him about and what can't that. but speaking of mueller's report, cullin's testimony will be a amtizer to the anvil that is about to drop on this.

Deeper than even we know right now. >> i think part of it is he could entangle his family, the kids. and i think it is that entanglement that he's trying to protect more than anything. >> and the interesting thing about moats. you can always find a way to cross them. >> shutdown versus mueller. the rest of the white house staff, what do they -- they've always tried to create this space for themselves when it comes to mueller. i think they like the shutdown fight because tarks lous them to avoid that. >> they are going to do something with governing, but in this case, not governing. it's a conv...

Involved in something that he should have known was illegal and did get himself into trouble. what it says, not only about his conduct but about this administration, and why the president has been so intent on heaping praise on him but not on someone else who has so-called flipped, but someone who is cooperating with federal investigators, that being michael cohen. and so the fact that he has cooperated so extensively with the government, i think it was ken delanian who said we still don't know the extent, the information he has given to the special prosecutor, which is an anvil over the head ...

So i think all of this is an indication, joe, that he is in full-blown panic mode. the twitter tsunami indicates he knows something else is coming down the pick. an anvil is about to drop, not a shoe. >> mika, we saw this a few weeks ago before the other shoe dropped in the cohen case, we saw him go on tirades saying mueller or the southern district of new york must be preparing something else. i think here though with every organization he's ever run as the "washington post" said seemingly under investigation this is a president who does feel the walls coming -- closing in on him quickly. >> ...