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The senate's is larger than the house but not as large as rubio wants. he wants it to be refundable. that means that it goes to people who -- a tax credit that goes to people who don't any tax. it's a transfer payment, a welfare payment, if you will, of support for a poor family that doesn't pay any income taxes. and that's what all of these issues are tied up with. if you move the dial on one of them, it affects the amount of money that is available for doing other things. it's a very complicated. you have to get good faith to get resolved. >> bill: one thing, cut spending. you can get around...

Doing nothing but talking about comey and russia and this and that. a lot of it's the media asking them about it in thing hallways, and that is distracting. elizabeth: we can talk about tax reform and health care, those things can feasibly be pushed, but the budget has to be passed or else then we talk about a shutdown. >> well, the budget is a spending blueprint. what they really need to pass without a shutdown is spending bills. those are 12 separate appropriations measures that are now churning through congress. they're way behind on this. it's likely we'll end up with another big so-called...

Appropriations bills have become just as hard as budgetary votes. my opinion they should be passing with simple majorities in the senate. i think they would eliminate a lot of these problems. in an odd way it might force us to once again to talk with each other and from time to time deal with each other. >> fundamentally, this is the responsibility of congress to get appropriations. it's what they are. the budget tells you how much you can spend and the appropriations measures give you the money to spend it. >> the same rules for both. >> the constitution does say that's your one job. i know y...