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Ignore the individual mandate, pay the penalty which is $95 in the first year and a guy who had health insurance is going to go without? >> yeah, that's a very good possibility, chris. >> steve, what about you? have you gone on the website? what are your thoughts? >> my situation is i'm going to have about $9,000 more out of pocket this coming next year just because of this change. that's $9,000 i don't have to spend in the economy anymore. that's a problem. secondly, i'm going to carry coverage because i have two kids and a wife and i believed in my coverage prior but now i've got to make cho...

>> you're saying you may ignore the individual mandate, pay the penalty which is $95 in the first year and a guy who had health insurance is going to go without? >> yeah, that's a very good possibility, chris. >> steve, what about you? have you gone on the website? what are your thoughts? >> my situation is i'm going to have about $9,000 more out of pocket this coming next year just because of this change. that's $9,000 i don't have to spend in the economy anymore. that's a problem. secondly, i'm going to carry coverage because i have two kids and a wife and i believed in my coverage prior but...

My policy had $3,500 deductible and paid 100% of everything. there is only four things it didn't cover. maternity, pediatric, dental, and mental health care, other than that it paid for everything. everything. >> let me interrupt for a second. this gets to one of the key points and i think one of the reasons people are so upset, ron. and that is steve happens to be a benefits specialist and financial planner. he's pretty sophisticated in all this stuff. whether it's him or whether it's cade or whether it's anybody else, they researched it, they figured out their family finances and what their ...

>> you're saying you may ignore the individual mandate, pay the penalty which is $95 in the first year and a guy who had health insurance is going to go without? >> yeah, that's a very good possibility, chris. >> steve, what about you? have you gone on the website? what are your thoughts? >> my situation is i'm going to have about $9,000 more out of pocket this coming next year just because of this change. that's $9,000 i don't have to spend in the economy anymore. that's a problem. secondly, i'm going to carry coverage because i have two kids and a wife and i believed in my coverage prior but...

More, not less. >> clearly for those people who are ineligible, say, for subsidies, it could be that they would pay more. but these subsidies reach very deeply into the middle class, not just the poor. for a family of four, i think steven was saying, for example, that he's a family of four, for those families these subsidies reach all the way up to $94,200 in annual income. these are thousands of dollars of subsidies. >> steve, your reaction to that? >> ron, let me tell you something, we've done extensive research on these premium subsidies. if you dig down to it, they aren't that substantial....