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Little bit from that red line statement from before. but where are we with syria. i think a lot of american, uncomfortable trying to take down known baathist in the civilization. >> i wonder what the russians want. they would join us in the fight for terrorism. and certainly they have a deal with islamists, the dangerous part. they have to deal with the fact that they're losing in syria, way back to the wocold war with the baathist regime as you mentioned. and now they may have to deal with the terrorists who may look like they have to take over in damascus. so we may face a lebanon-type situa...

Afforded power by america, by the allied forces and, of course, when they did that they removed all the infrastructure. a very interesting piece by fareed zakaria, a cnn colleague, about what happened in iraq and what fate mandela are in south african, getting rid of all the other people in power, rather he kept most of them in place. he brought them inclusively in to his new south africa. as a result there was no insurgency. and the americans and germans did the complete opposite. they removed all the infrastructure. baathist was removed. that's what created the insurgency for the sunnis. oka...

And that was an -- not an easy, but, you know, seemed the easiest target for them. i do think they believe their own spin. if you got in there, everything would just fall into place. >> let's get to the positive side. let's talk the freedom agenda. the notion, we all argued about at the time, to somehow if you broke iraq, a bad baathist administration, you could replace it with something like democracy. then the neocons, the intellectuals would say this. somehow that would spread around the region. i haven't heard that argument. >> no, well, because it obviously didn't work. >> we've had the a...

That, which is the party of palestinian president mahmoud abbas. what hamas leaders believe they have achieved is to demonstrate to the palestinian people that their choice to attack israel and negotiate from that point gets better results than the baathist preferred method of peaceful negotiations. the rocket attacks are the reason israel is committed to at least considering easing the economic embargo. they are also loudly promoting the perception that they stood up to the israeli aerial on slot and that israel was afraid to launch a ground war. even some influential voices on the israeli si...

Terrorists, uprising is going to peter out and they have held their security apparatus together. on the other hand the rebel forces are getting some additional weapons and some additional support from the international community and holding on when they hear that the u.n. has plans and that, perhaps, there will be a brokered outcome better than having assad with all-out victory. why think it will end any time soon, predictions that this would be quick, clearly, have been wrong. >>shepard: that obviously wrong and now, mike, i read this morning the estimates are that the syrian government's loc...