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Of the justice department that close advisers to the president, current and form, are immune from testimony and he is citing that privilege. the dc circuit ruled in a separate trump case in the archives but that has to give way to the congressional need for this information. on the other hand, meadows has been cooperative. he was a close adviser to president the president. he does this claim of privilege. i think this is a much tougher call for the justice department than it was in the bannon case. >> i know you've got to go, pete. even those these are not communications with the president, do...

White house chief of staff. so, legally, do you have a much harder case to prove? and does the justice department, if it does proceed, have a harder case with the grand jury? does he have a better chance on appeals? >> in the most critical respect, mark meadows and steve bannon are exactly in the same position. that is they refuse to even appear. so they didn't come and assert a privilege. they just say we don't need to bother showing up. in that sense, they stand exactly the same way. you're right, bannon was -- hadn't been in the white house for years. meadows was the chief of staff. but mea...

His responses with the trump team. so, any documents he's providing to the committee, he's intending to let the trump team know ahead of time and coordinate with them. so it's not clear exactly whether shorts cooperation is going to be a sort of full, open component that the committee would like it to be. >> and there's the question, katie, about what doj does. they've got bannon. the committee is talking about a possible contempt citation for jeffrey clark. there's a possibility that now hangs over mark meadows. those would be, i think, a little slightly trickier cases for the department of j...

Actually really giving anything up and angering former president trump. the thing that has changed and is fascinating is mark meadows came out with a book. this is a book that he truly -- our reporting says he truly thought former president trump was going to love. of course that was a total misread of the situation. former president trump is furious with the book. meadows, we've been told, is beside himself, trying to get back into trump's good graces. if you want to understand this sudden confusing about this, that is what you need to look at. >> john carl, another case of fealty to donald t...

You really should invoke the fifth amendment because you have reason to think, as birnbaum said on behalf of eastman in a letter he wrote yesterday, he says, you know, they're talking about referrals to the department of justice. that's prosecution. and if we look at sidney, i don't want to get ahead of whatever you have in mind, but sidney powell is now under investigation in texas and dc. and the local prosecutors prosecuting the bannon case, molly gaston, she issued the subpoena in relation to what sidney powell was doing with the funds and so forth of this defend america group that she had...