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>> all those three? >> always those three in optimum amounts, heaps, really. we've always known the foods we hate to love will make us sick if we eat too many of them. but we now know for years thes prodollars industry has known this, even as they continue adding heaps. >> what food would surprise us if michael moss came out and said that has the bliss point very well calculated and we go, oh, my gosh, i had to idea? >> i really love both potato chips myself and to talk about it. they have the salt, the flavor burst goes right you to your pleasure center of the brab and says eat more. they're ...

Being inside a detective story. looking at how these companies have, have deepened our dependence on salt, sugar fat especially. >> and the other thing that is just staggering is the science. the amount of research and development they put into every aspect. you talk about something called the bliss point. >> yes. >> which anybody who has bitten into a cheeto, which i'm sure you have, sam stein, and you threw the bag away, so there would be no evidence about your orange fingers. the bliss point is the apex of like taste, sensation, sound, crunch, the rest. i want to read a little bit about the...