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Tragedy in the u.s. capitol on january 6th, all of that was connected to an effort to actually intervene with the certification and the finalization of a fair and secure and highly accurate election. so that effort's going to come back in 2024. and what's happening right now in 2021, which we should expect to only escalate in the months and years ahead, is an effort from those bad actors to prepare so that next time around, they'll have more people in positions of authority and again be better organized and more strategic to be able to be successful at blocking democracy, at stopping the count...

Of the vote being the determining factor of who wins an election. >> let's talk more about that because, you know, during that -- as we've been talking about, as you've mentioned here, a few brave state officials stood up and kept our democracy going in 2020. you say election officials across the country are being replaced. so what is the exact impact, then, on 2024? is it that republicans take over with minority rule? is it trying to get the former guy back in the white house? is it we want to make sure that we win at all costs? what is it? >> i think it's important to separate the political ...

We are going to have it for you just as soon as it happens but until then, let's talk. paul krugman joins me, the author of "arguing with zombies, economics, politics, and the fight for a better future." professor, thank you for joining, i appreciate it. it's good to see you. >> good to be on. >> so, the january-6th commission on its way to defeat in the senate. republicans don't want an investigation into an attack that threatened their lives and our democracy. is this a paermanent-black mark on our nation? what do you think? >> yeah, i think we're in very deep trouble and i think it's import...

Continue to sow seeds of doubt about the faith of our democracy, to cause people to disengage and not participate. and also, put rules in place that will allow for voter suppression or reduction of access to the vote. and that will ultimately decrease turnout, particularly in communities of color across the country. that's what we're looking -- that's where we are headed. >> i was saying, that is -- if i have ever seen a flashing-red light or a horn or a warning siren. what you just said was it. we are seeing, tonight, how lawmakers, secretary, are trying to whitewash the insurrection to prote...

Into a more healthy and robust democracy. until we have that accountability and more truth-telling, we're not going to move forward, and we're just going to see an intensification of these bad actors doing things like they're doing in arizona with the quote, unquote, fraudity, passing laws across the country to make it harder for people to vote in states all over the country and removing or replacing election administrators with people who will be more willing to bend to the whims of candidates and party officials instead of listening to the will of the voters. >> thought we were going to lose...