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Happens, this is going to bring crashing down virtual liver maj -- virtually every major policy he derived. >> this is much bigger than jamal khashoggi and what happened to him, which is serious enough. let's go to nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel who joins us from istanbul, where ramie suggests a global chess match is playing out in the shadow of jamal khashoggi's killing. >> oh, i couldn't agree more. i'm very happy that we're finally talking about this issue because, yes, it is an interesting, fascinating, brutal, terrifying murder story about a journalist who goes into a ...

What the saudis are trying to sell, but most of the leaders are opposing, and i said to him, what about bringing a bone saw into the em bbassy, and doesn't that indicate a deliberate attempt beforehand to murder him? and he said, do you know that there was a bone saw? and i said, well, i don't personally know, and it has been reported and he said, well we will know more in a couple of days. >> well, of course, he has the cia director there and we will learn more, but the question becomes, will he accept the intelligent analysis which is going to confirm what has been reported. >> and what will...

On. >> you bring a body double and bone saw and 15 other people, and the saudis are trying to make us believe it's not premedicated. that's remarkable. and they are trying to say the crown prince is not connected to it in any way as well. that is something that they continue to try and do, clarissa? >> reporter: that is something they are continuing to do, but i will say they have said that the killing was not premedicated. it's still possible, or it's possible they will try to present it as it was a potential abduction, a potential rendition. they may still have tried to use a body double in ...

Saudis may be able to try to ask, does it prove premeditated murder or could it be premedicinetatipr premeditated rendition or some type of abduction? the saudis will neither confirm nor deny the use of a body double. >> remarkable reporting. thank you so much for delivering it to us. a bone saw, body double and a fake beard. if that doesn't add up to premeditation, i don't know what does. joining us now is "washington post" reporter who spoke to the president over the weekend about this case. josh, this was a major shift from the president in his conversation with you. >> right. >> last wee...

The bone saw, the various factors that have been implausible, and the president conceded that their stories were not necessarily on the level but also made it clear that he wants the current regime to stay in power and supports the status quo in saudi arabia. >> so when we look at it through that lens, we just heard from jared kushner, max, saying we have to be able to work with our allies. he said we have to deal with this terrible situation. can you on the one hand, let's say, punish the saudis while still preserving that relationship? >> of course, you can punish the saudis. remember, mbs, ...