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Yeah, they should pull themselves up by the boot straps, but sometimes people need temporary help or some help from the government. otherwise, what's government there for if you're paying -- you're paying taxes into these programs and things like that? >> let me push back just a bit. i think it's easy to read coburn as a fully racialized critique, because i wasn't there also when they were passing out the black folk advantages, or to read it as you are as sort of a small government critique. but the fact is that the other part of the criticism coming today in this kind of obama against the wor...

Out what those advantages are, because there are a slew of african-american men who would love to know what they are so that they can take advantage of them the way that president obama took advantage of them when he was -- when he was not president. i think what we're seeing here there though, and, you know, senator coburn is a decent man. i can't get into his heart. but he strikes me as a decent man, a nice man, not motivated by animus. he is just from a different political philosophy. when you look at it like that, i think what we are seeing here is basically the fundamental differences bet...

Because there are a slew of african-american men who would love to know what they are so that they can take advantage of them the way that president obama took advantage of them when he was -- when he was not president. i think what we're seeing here there though, and, you know, senator coburn is a decent man. i can't get into his heart. but he strikes me as a decent man, a nice man, not motivated by animus. he is just from a different political philosophy. when you look at it like that, i think what we are seeing here is basically the fundamental differences between progressives, liberals, an...