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Demanded even more spending, new stimulus, additional spending. maybe he doesn't think that $16 trillion is a real problem even though you talk to any economists, chris, and they're going to tell you that that has a depressive effect on economic growth and ruins the credit markets that are so vital for ongoing businesses. >> and not just that, gregg, but he also asks basically for the debt ceiling to be abolished as we know it, as it's constituted, as it was constituted from the beginning of this country that congress would authorize more borrowing. he said, no, no, no, i want you to pass a la...

The united states senate and the president that have not come together. bill: we'll see if we see you both on the 26th of december, some time that week. thank you for your time. martha: what are the consequences this lawmakers do not reach a deal in time? are we on our way as some warn to becoming greece? doug mcelway is live ph washington. there are nice things about greece that you won't mind emulating, but your budget, their economy not one of them. >> the parthanon a nice thing to see when you go to athens. when ron paul was running he got huge applause when he said a government that conti...

>> if they do not make this deal on tax rates for the top 2%, they're going away and we're going to come back and pass tax can you tells for everybody under 250. >> is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes, i will not play that game. >> he's the last person who should have limitless borrowing power. look, the only way we ever cut spending around here is by using the debate over the debt limit to do it. >> joining me now is nbc's senior political editor, mark murray....

>> absolutely. another issue, i guess, that is seen as a complication but one that must be addressed the president says, the debt ceiling. i want to play what senator mcconnell has said regarding the president and the portion of his proposal that included the debt ceiling. let's play it. >> the last person who should have limitless borrowing power. look, the only way we cut spending around here is by using the debate over the debt limit to do it. >> i bet you don't agree with that? >> i don't agree with that. we've seen what happens. we've been brought to the brink and don't want to go back to...

Declines, your borrowing power decline it's. >> yes. >> greta: if that declines, you are not getting the loan and you can't spend and rev up the economy to help the economy. it's like, almost like a domino effect. >> that's exactly right. the d.c. policy has been to make the net worth feel better because spending is tied to net worth and so much of the u.s. economy is about spending. i say, don't do any of that. i say to d.c., do this instead -- talk straight to the american people. no more knee-jerk reactions and auto pilot, thinking let's rev up the spending. basically, you want to have stra...