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Reelection campaign. but why would any wall street people give him money when he's very antibusiness? why would they give him money? >> there is always going to be a constituency on wall street which is very supportive of democrats. generally speaking, democrats. in fact, there was a myth out there, you assume that wall street, full of rich people, must be a republican bastion. it is not. it has traditionally given a great deal of money, but to democrats. >> bill: isn't that because of what i call the ge syndrome, general electric syndrome? >> yes. >> bill: that if you're a big corporation and...

Writing a story about the koch and gop in today's paper. this program by kochs to buy influence has been an enormous success, is that right? >> it's been successful. i don't think i would say they were buying influence so much as they were -- >> renting it? >> they set out several years ago to sort of beef up their political operations. they were among many republicans during the bush era that felt that small government, free market policies were not being followed and they decided several years ago to sort of amp up some of their operations. we're seeing a gradual process and we're seeing the...

A buying influence. >> as bad as that is. this makes me madder. >> this is a statement from general motors. that is a code word for lobbyist. washington communications . he said it is an exercise of free speech . that makes us feel better? we'll continue to have our voice heard and remain in gaving . has no conscience and has no problem with it. that's not giving his money away. >> if they want to make private donation. >> how can they give charitiy to anybody. they are a charity case themselves. >> but they are giving our money. >> they still haven't haven't. president and vice-president have...

A buying influence. >> as bad as that is. this makes me madder. >> this is a statement from general motors. that is a code word for lobbyist. washington communications . he said it is an exercise of free speech . that makes us feel better? we'll continue to have our voice heard and remain in gaving . has no conscience and has no problem with it. that's not giving his money away. >> if they want to make private donation. >> how can they give charitiy to anybody. they are a charity case themselves. >> but they are giving our money. >> they still haven't haven't. president and vice-president have...

Much money spent on oil and lobbying, so, on the hill, how do you fight that kind of influence? >> well, we have to change the way we finance campaigns in this country. many of us have been saying that for years and years and efforts are made to reform and the same lobbyists who are buying influence and access to the policymakers resist the change and the way we can finance campaigns. it is a cat chasing its tail. it's a vicious circle and has to be broken if we are to protect this country's security. the best way i can think of is to draw a direct connection, which exists, between sacrificing...