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And it is the cultural piece of it. the commander of a unit is responsible for what is called his or her command climate. that's what it is like working and doing business with living as part of a group of soldiers or sailors or marines or airmen 24/7 sometimes. how do you set the tone for how they ought to interact with each other. that's kind of stuff. that's why commanders are falling down. they're not doing their job because their bosses are not paying attention to that aspect. >> we appreciate all the work you are doing and hopefully senator mcsally sharing her story and calling this as a...

Say-so is. in a way, that's putting them in a position that they're really not trained for and not ready for. and in fact detracts from good order and discipline, although that's the argument that's being made to keep it in the chain of command by saying that helps with good order and discipline. i think on the contrary it actually threatens good order and discipline for commanders. >> captain manning, take us inside some of these conversations. have you had opportunities to talk to other members of the senate, people who were on the other side of this issue? >> yes, i have. and i've talked to...