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Constantine kilimnick. the question of whether or not they were conspiring to lip sanctions on russia in order to bring peace to ukraine, that goes to the heart of the mueller investigation. an awareness of that on manafort's part might prompt him to want to mislead about it, as andrew wiesman said, perhaps in an effort to get a pardon from the president which would also kind of signal an awareness on the president's part that this was perhaps not something that he should be disclosing to the special counsel. >> right. that's a big hanging question. they floated that out there. if they have mo...

>> jennifer ruben, if you're looking for logic in the madness of roger stone it can only be he's looking for a relatively short prison sentence or a pardon from donald trump so he can get one of these online shows like the one he appeared on today. >> that's the only logical explanation. and i think he better hope for the pardon because i don't think he's going to end up with a short sentence. mimi said something interesting. you can see the out lines of charges in this case. and one of the questions in my mind is will mueller indict wikileaks? and that is left as a hanging question i think wi...

President and i still support him. because i helped take down the ooefbl queen, the foul-mouthed, short-tempered hillary clinton. >> jennifer ruben, if you're looking for logic in the madness of roger stone it can only be he's looking for a relatively short prison sentence or a pardon from donald trump so he can get one of these online shows like the one he appeared on today. >> that's the only logical explanation. and i think he better hope for the pardon because i don't think he's going to end up with a short sentence. mimi said something interesting. you can see the out lines of charges in ...

Be charged with some kind of false statements relating to his testimony in congress. but i suspect he will also be charged with other things. so i think that's really sort of the hanging question out there, is he going to be charged with some kind of not collusion but conspiracy. will he be charged with crimes in addition to the false statements, and what will the false statements be? what will the evidence be that mueller puts forward of his lies to congress? that will be very revealing to us. >> peter, i'm not going to ask you if the west wing is preoccupied with all these preliminary matter...

Of the committee. and do you follow the rest of this story that this could mean very bad things for roger stone? >> yes, brian, i do agree with that inference that people seem to be drawing from this, under the rules of evidence you need to get the best or original document. you can't -- you know, to charge someone to put into court. and obviously they would want to have that just to make sure that the copies that they've been looking at are accurate. but more importantly, under the rules of evidence you need to have the original documents eventually in court. look, i think it is not a questio...