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Think that something is being held back potentially or as a threat that this could be obstruction of a grand jury case if you don't turn these documents over. this plus the story we heard today about jared kushner not fully disclosing his contacts to congress is showing a pattern that there are questions potentially that mueller's team has about the documents being turned over to them. >> yes, we're going to get to mr. kushner in the conversation. mika, given the fact that you're the lawyer here, what do you make of this move by mueller? >> so i think that when he's issuing the subpoena, he's ...

Held back potentially or as a threat that this could be obstruction of a grand jury case if you don't turn these documents over. this plus the story we heard today about jared kushner not fully disclosing his contacts to congress is showing a pattern that there are questions potentially that mueller's team has about the documents being turned over to them. >> yes, we're going to get to mr. kushner in the conversation. mieke, given the fact that you're the lawyer here, what do you make of this move by mueller? >> so i think that when he's issuing the subpoena, he's not actually looking for info...

That there are questions potentially that mueller's team has about the documents being turned over to them. >> yes, we're going to get to mr. kushner in the conversation. mika, given the fact that you're the lawyer here, what do you make of this move by mueller? >> so i think that when he's issuing the subpoena, he's not actually looking for information. he's checking facts. he has many ways of getting this information from people, either through intercepts they may have at the foreign end, from other people who are cooperating who have turned over documents already. so this is a test to the c...

Mines where other administrations would like to hand hold. the executive order is a great example. the obama administration, whether the substance was right or not would have had an on-the-record briefing, they would have tried to communicate what they thought the legal case was for it. they wouldn't have dropped it and let people run with it and that does induce higher errors, but i think they want people to screw up. >> you're creating a conspiracy theory which i'm not saying is wrong. conspiracy theories are often right but -- >> i just think they don't want -- >> remove the intention and i...

Trump because the administration is so much less careful. that is absolutely true. >> that's my point, yes. >> which is another reason why more sobriety is called for. jack shaffer had a great peace where he said these journalists saying we're going to gird our loins, time to fight the trump administration, how about buckling down a little more? you know the serious work of journalism is boring. it's checking facts. >> i agree there is a certain kind of -- part of it, too, is plausibility, part of what is screwing with the thermostat of journalists is that there are certain kinds of things an ...