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Called it illegal since you don't hold any power that's your opinion. now, president obama and panetta, as you saw, all right? >> yes. >> bill: they are going to continue to do this kind of thing. what i don't understand is if you say it's illegal to attack the enemy by air, that's what this is, then is it illegal to attack them by ground? could we send commandos after al awlaki and cue him in the head? can we do that. >> first of all i disagree with you that they are the enemy. you have defined them as the enemy. >> bill: you don't believe al qaeda is the enemy of the united states. >> i don'...

Don't hold any power that's your opinion. now, president obama and panetta, as you saw, all right? >> yes. >> bill: they are going to continue to do this kind of thing. what i don't understand is if you say it's illegal to attack the enemy by air, that's what this is, then is it illegal to attack them by ground? could we send commandos after al awlaki and cue him in the head? can we do that. >> first of all i disagree with you that they are the enemy. you have defined them as the enemy. >> bill: you don't believe al qaeda is the enemy of the united states. >> i don't know that mr. al awlaki is...

Washington, dc. he later became a preacher at a mosque in virginia. we his father once served as a professor at a university in yemen before becoming the agriculture minister. last year, the father, he filed a lawsuit against president obama and to then c.i.a. chief panetta, and the then secretary of defense, robert gates in an tonight to stop the u.s. government from targeting his son. but a district court judge threw out the case and now, of course, well, he is dead. and jonathan hunt is with us in our new york city newsroom. he wasn't exactly, i guess, a model muslim. >>jonathan: apparently...

Interrogation techniques? >> obviously there was some valuable information that was derived from those intearing tkpwaeugsz but i guess the question everybody will always debate is whether those approaches had to be used to get the same information and that, frankly, is an open question. >> before mr. panetta works for president obama, he has to say that. he has to hedge a bit. we don't know how much information we might have gotten if maybe we had not dunked the guys in the water, the three guys. i understand mr. panetta's position but the truth is enhanced interrogation does lead to life-sav...

Derived through those kinds of interrogations but i guess the question that everybody will always debate is whether or not those approaches had to be used in order to get the same information. and that frankly, is an open question. >> bill: okay. because mr. panetta works for president obama. he has to say that he has to hedge a bit. well, we don't know exactly how much information. we might have got, could have, maybe, had we not dunked the guys in the water, the three guys. okay, fine. i understand the game. i understand mr. panetta's position. but, again, the truth is that enhanced interrog...