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Proof as a prosecutor, you want to respect the weight of the hammer that is the justice of department against someone. it's a system that's going to benefit those with the vast resources of the government more than the individual defendant. keep in mind this -- we're hearing a lot about cla classification of documents and whether he declassified them or otherwise. the espionage act predates the classification system that we have as our government. it's not an element of the crime that we have to show that a document was classified at that juncture. >> what do they have to show? >> they have to...

Because the statute came about in world war i in a time before we had the classification system. that requires instead that the documents relate to the national defense. so if there really was this document about an attack on iran, that would certainly qualify in that category. and then third, it is obstruction of justice. if, for all the reasons you just said, he was moving boxes around, he gave over one envelope of material when he was still concealing 26 boxes in his basement, and said that was all there was. he said don't bother looking in the office. all of that could amount to obstructio...

Trump in some way? >> only if the government tries to charge him with mishandling that particular document. my guess is if they aren't able to find it or find it ever existed, they may not do that. so that piece of it might be something that is not of legal significance that can be used in the case against him, but that admission of his understanding of the classification system i think is very valuable evidence. >> real quick, barbara, i want to get your thoughts, too, on the grand jury reconvening and what it could or couldn't mean. >> all the things that laura and danny said are absolutely ...

Mehdi Hasan provides insightful reporting and probing interviews that examine the day's events and provide a deeper level of context for the politics of our...

Of course a msnbc contributor. chuck, it's good to see you. thank you for being with us tonight. i don't know what level of importance he was scrapped to this missing document that nobody seems to know exactly what it is or where it is? >> not as much as you might expect, alex. what i think is important and you spoke about it in the introduction, is the acknowledgment by mr. trump on a recording that he understood the classification system that there were limits on what he could do post presidency and that he couldn't share information because he wasn't able any longer to declassify this infor...