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Kremlin in june of 2016 to talk about dirt about hillary clinton. we know him and his organization were negotiating for a trump tower moscow in the first half of 2017. i think "no collusion" is a strong statement. maybe it was. they were definitely collusion curious, that's for sure. >> collusion curious might be my favorite line of the day. millions of dollars wasted, but if you look back at the special counsel, the sdny, and what they've come up with, more than 36 people and entities have been charged, overall 192 criminal counts. is that wasted money? i mean, i guess there is a political an...

Make. there an apparently are about 50 sealed indictments on file in the district court in washington, a bunch of them were filed in september right before the silence period that mueller had to observe. sophie think a lot of court watchers are saying there are more shoes just about to drop. >> so matthew, you talked about possibly members who are his family are close to him. he's worried about his own son. >> definitely. you know, his son don junior was the central player in a meeting in trump tower in july of 2016 in wila russian lawyer showed up, the connection to the russian government all...

Indictments on file in the district court in washington. a bunch of them were filed in september right before the silence period that mueller had to observe. i think a lot of court watchers are saying there are more shoes just about to drop. >> so matthew, you talked about possibly members who are his family or close to him. he's worried about his own son. >> definitely. you know, his son don junior was the central player in a meeting in trump tower in july of 2016 in which a russian lawyer showed up with connections to the russian government, allegedly bringing dirt on hillary clinton. >> wil...

Got nothing from it. look, they'd be able to bring their case right now if the spy had any incriminating information. that spy should have been enough to tell them these people were not talking to the russians. >> so, this is what they say, not on television. he and they were too stupid to collude with russia. that is their defense against collusion. am i missing anything? >> yeah, but the problem is the goal posts have moved on collusion. a year ago it was like, no, we know nothing about the russians, no contacts. the don junior contact comes out, the meeting about dirt, the george papadopoul...

>> well, there was collusion curious, at least. someone was asking the other day, it's like how has this story evolved? the story that the trump folks told a year ago is a different story than what we know today. and i think that's something that keeps us as journalists on this story. the fact that they so adamantly said there was no connections to r russians and nothing there. that's changed. we've learned a lot of different things. why is it -- are these folks that don't tell the truth pause that's sort of their natural inclination or are they not telling the truth because there's something ...