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Every dip. it's about selling every rally. so there's a lot going on and this is being amplified by computer trading. it's really important to get the focus back on what's working and that's the u.s. economy. sandra: you hear the r word thrown a lot, recession, these days. are concerns of one, are they overdone at this point or is that becoming a reality? >> it's certainly not becoming a reality. you would need either a major policy mistake or a massive market accident to push us into recession. but we will slow down unless we build on the pro growth policies. i think the reference to infrastr...

Of the traders here in the frankfurt floored just around midday and he said he was shocked it was unfathomable and comprehensible and he said you know just because people see a loophole there was a loophole admittedly illegally at the beginning of this process but the wrongdoing went on after that was closed you can't go ahead and just abuse it and still taxpayer money interesting observation he made he thinks that part of it part of it is due to the type of trade that you see around us here we have of course floor trading but it's grounded it's backed by computer trading with basically trilli...

It's like hey, let's go crazy here. down 380, 410 and then 700. >> yeah. you and i discussed this. we've been cited saying the same phrase. like this is the new formal as more and more computer algorithms are taking over. people decide which levels they want to sell. more and more computer trading is guiding this volatilitvolati. your point is well-taken. gone are the days of 50-point swings. we're skating below this level. there's 24,000, a key like logical level. the dow down more than 700 points. so in my humble opinion. the thing that is guiding us the most today are the trade tariffs. the...

All three levels, they dropped further. it adds another element of instability. also let's not forget we're talking about a spending bill. there's a lot of people, economists worried about the longer term implications on how much we're giving in tax cuts, whether it's going to people or corporation. that paired with instability and paired with where we are in an economic life cycle at the end of a nine-year bull market run, there's some concern that we're going to see more days like this where you see on your screen. as we discussed with computer trading, they're always more dramatic now. this...

John layfield, my fear is that it exacerbates trends, compounds them what do you think? >> i agree completely. you're talking about the credit sweep, the xiv company you short the fear index. you're betting on a derivative of a derivative. that's what happened in the subprime crisis. this set off a cascading effect of al gor rhythm traitin tradin. the markets love this. you're having more trading. 60% is computers on the symptom market. once this reverse vix got blown up, lost 92% of its value in one day. set off the computer trading. this was a technical malfunction -- >> neil: and feeds on i...