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Butts? >> i think they did what they had to do for themselves. >> rich, i know you are an nfl fan. phil simmons got fired for speculating he was a liar. she said roger goodell lied. >> the notes seem to back her up. this seemed bizarre that you would punish him twice for the same offense. the first time too lightly, the second time too severely. the process has been a mess it's a big threat to the future of roger goodell. in the long-term, i believe the biggest threat to the nfl is the concussion issue. >> it would be -- goodell's job would be on line if he weren't hired by the owners who are ...

But simply bying a knowled ackn these things, i think i serve a purpose that for whatever reason, most of my colleagues, as good as they are, don't seem willing to do. during the entire coverage of the ncaa basketball tournament, you'll hear every imaginable statistic. you'll never hear graduation rates or the relationship between academics an athletics. if i was doing that, i'd work it in somewhere. would i work it in with the game on the line with ten seconds to go? of course not. i enjoy the drama of sports as much as might be. but i'd acknowledge it. i think someone who is in a position wh...

Source of pride and they're not changing the team's name. >> how much of this do you think -- on the part of the nfl and the football teams, is that they don't want congress to get involved? they've had run-ins with congress on other issues. the concussion issue. you know, performance-enhancing drugs. all of that. and this is a marker for them, that they not give in on this issue. do you think that's part of it? >> well, i don't think that they want congress being involved in their business period. so the longer this is a distraction and the more that this gains steam, i'm sure that the nation...

This is a badge of honor and a source of pride and they're not changing the team's name. >> how much of this do you think -- on the part of the nfl and the football teams, is that they don't want congress to get involved? they've had run-ins with congress on other issues. the concussion issue. you know, performance-enhancing drugs. all of that. and this is a marker for them, that they not give in on this issue. do you think that's part of it? >> well, i don't think that they want congress being involved in their business period. so the longer this is a distraction and the more that this gains ...

Outside his own little circle, and live 25 different lives. he has to be involved with everybody on the team at a deep level and he has to be able to forget about his own problems and help other people. >> we like to think about you as that guy back then and the leader and the player on the ice, and people don't think you have had a post player here and you started something called the messier project dedicated to helping the concussion issue in hockey. >> everybody that came in 1979 and 80 had to wear a helmet, so i think you see the evolution of the game over years and to the point where vis...