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More left-leaning. thank you both for joining us. i want you to start because you're a reigning politician. first of all, i think you can be a really great senator for life and do great things, like phil hart did years ago. the greatest work he did on consumer everything. you don't have to be president to get great things done. but explain to me what looks to be your root. what does she do if she doesn't stay in the senate? >> i want to go back to that phil hart thing and what you were saying about this speech. it was a brilliant speech. and hart, as you may know, was a trust buster. and here ...

Their power to keep this country safe and make sure we didn't get attacked again. and we didn't. god bless the people who are willing to put their lives on the line and make sure that's the case. were there mistakes made? absolutely there were. looking in the rearview mirror, 12 years later, maybe we shouldn't have done? absolutely. but to equate dick cheney to lying and doing everything he could to protect this country, i think it's insult and a disservice for those who serve this country. >> let me ask you a question, ron, as an american citizen and viewer of public affairs. do you think we ...

And al qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s. the iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al qaeda organization. >> do you think the american people are prepared for a long, costly, and bloody battle with significant american casualties? >> i don't think it's likely to unfold that way, tim. because i believe we'll be greeted as liberators. >> you know, everything he said was wrong. and much of what he said there was already proven wrong or in question within the intelligence community. dick cheney in some ways has set a world record for big lies on "...

Iraqi documents, nothing, no connection whatsoever. he said things again and again, even things that he was warned by intelligence experts within his own administration not to say, that there was no real validity to this reporting. yet he said it again and again, just as he said it again this sunday, that this was a connection between al qaeda and saddam hussein. just as he said torture works. the bottom line is, at what point do we look at dick chainy and say, he's not to be taken seriously. >> respond to that, ron. >> and my response to that, he was the greatest vice president in the history...

12 years later, maybe we shouldn't have done? absolutely. but to equate dick cheney to lying and doing everything he could to protect this country, i think it's insult and a disservice for those who serve this country. >> let me ask you a question, ron, as an american citizen and viewer of public affairs. do you think we were right to go to the iraq war? wage war on that country? >> do i think at the time, the actually intelligence -- >> were we right, given the evidence we had? not arguments, but evidence. >> i think in looking at what george w. bush looked at from the intelligence, he felt h...