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Coercion. and it's clearly illegitimate, then it is, in fact, not a legitimate, stable state in that sense. >> what was interesting for the last few weeks, what happened at barney's. there's not one person who i met, who said, what they did to that kid was right. what happened to that young man outside of barney's is what happens to every young black and brown kid in new york when their stopped and frisked by the police. the same policy, we think you're a burglar, we think you're selling drugs. we think that is wrong. and every other stop and frisk should be wrong too. >> do you think it's the...

Increase your wages. meanwhile, health care, housing, education have gone up historically and you are in the same squeeze you've been looking at for decades. >> one of the ways we used to think we could juice the economy, heather, was we know that people who are poor or living right at the margins at the front tier of their income, if they get just marginally more income, we know they spend it. they're not going to save it, not use it to pay down debt, they use it on consumer items and that usually gins up the economy a bit. is there something you saw in yesterday's job numbers that suggest to...

People who get pensions go out and spend that money and circulate it through the economy. there's some economic growth. eventually more people show up at your store to buy furniture. that's how the economy works. it's counter-stimulus to take this money, a trillion dollars out of the economy now. >> especially when folks are living on that margin, every additional dollar gets spent in rent or food or any of those other consumer items. >> that's right. when you talk about percentage of african-americans or latinos versus whites impacted by this, i think you have to think about the alternatives ...

Is part of the point, the fact you can name three jobs juan williams has had in the last week, i mean, i certainly have a lot of ideological disagreements with juan williams but the idea that he is not a hard worker is bizarre. more than that, the other thing that's bizarre, most of juan williams ideological discourse at least over the course of the past decade has tracked closer to this scenario about, you know, hard work. in fact, i recently heard him talk about the poor have to defer gratification, they can't -- they're not going to be able to buy the consumer items. they have to make diffe...

Distributional monstrosity. the poor would pay more while the rich would have their taxes cut. i want to focus in the state of florida, mr. cain, you could have people paying a 15% tax on consumer items. this is tough for people making under $50,000 a year. >> well, chuck, this is why -- first of all, the fact that i got attacked so much, and my plan got attacked so much last night, that's a good thing, because it gives me an opportunity to correct some of those misperceptions. here's what a lot of people missed, including bruce bartl t bartlett. we'll be happy to share our analysis. we're wor...