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Chris: but the point is, sir, the point is that president xi is more committed to paris than the united states is. >> but is he more committed in action and deed, and the answer is, no. we've demonstrated through the steps we've taken already pre-1994 levels because that technology, we can burn coal in a clean fashion. we shouldn't have this commitment by the u.s. government to say that fossil fuels are bad, renewables are good. the u.s. epa and the u.s. government should not pick winners and losers, chris, and that's what's happened the last several years, and we demonstrated that leadership ...

Key way, chris -- chris: but the point is, sir, the point is that president xi is more committed to paris than the united states is. >> but is he more committed in action and deed, and the answer is, no. we've demonstrated through the steps we've taken already pre-1994 levels because that technology, we can burn coal in a clean fashion. we shouldn't have this commitment by the u.s. government to say that fossil fuels are bad, renewables are good. the u.s. epa and the u.s. government should not pick winners and losers, chris, and that's what's happened the last several years, and we demonstrate...

Key way, chris -- chris: but the point is, sir, the point is that president xi is more committed to paris than the united states is. >> but is he more committed in action and deed, and the answer is, no. we've demonstrated through the steps we've taken already pre-1994 levels because that technology, we can burn coal in a clean fashion. we shouldn't have this commitment by the u.s. government to say that fossil fuels are bad, renewables are good. the u.s. epa and the u.s. government should not pick winners and losers, chris, and that's what's happened the last several years, and we demonstrate...

Populations, and also the rolling back of regulations, which many stakeholders have been working for decades to have in place and to actually enhance those so they were more protective was another reason. and then, of course, the roll rollbacks of the budget or proposals to roll back the budgets, which would decimate the work that's been happening for decades. >> tom, i want to bring you in here because i think the bottom line is now that the environmental protection agency is led by somebody who fundamentally doesn't believe that the environment is in any jeopardy from increased oil an gas ex...

Proven that co-2 is the primary control knob for climate, do you believe that? >> no, i think that measuring with precision human activity on the climate is challenging to do and there's disagreement about the degree of impact. no, i would not agree that it's a primary contributor to the global warming we see. >> so those comments go against really the accepted science on climate change, including inside the epa, which scott pruitt runs. do you believe there's tremendous disagreement on this? >> those comments were reckless. they're totally unacceptable. the head of the epa should not stutter ...