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>> whether it's true or not. >> is it true? >> one of the counterfactuals, would joe lewis beat muhammad ali? they're both heavy weights. barack obama is a much more charismatic, more talented politician than hillary clinton so my copout answer i think, though, is this. if it's 2012, i think barack obama would have been re-elected and would have beat donald trump. by the time you get around to 2016 as donald trump's tweet said, you have things like isis, look at the brexit vote, i think things were trending in donald trump's direction. i'm not so sure barack obama would have beat him. >> angel...

Democratic dip. florida is showing she's ahead of jeb bush. we're seeing that she's still -- her brand is holding up even as democrats get drug down other than in a place like colorado. >> okay, sure. but it's still so far out that the only thing these polls are measuring is name recognition. so, you know, i don't put a lot of stock in these early polls in swing states and i think that there's a lot of time between now and the end -- >> oh, don't give that answer. that's the copout answer. that's the copout answer. all republicans are going to get measured as to how well they perform against h...