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That as a point and said, look, if this was really a problem, we would have heard about it. >> frank, i have a question for you. what beyond trump's own words and behavior, some of it, as you and i have discussed, happened in plain sight, as we watched, what beyond that obvious evidence would there be? >> well, barb touched on this and that is the really well-founded theory that the bureau would not be opening such a case and convincing doj to allow it without something more than just the kind of public, bizarre behavior of the president. so, understand that the fbi is privy not only to the mo...

Same. he's struggled to connect to regular people. he keeps claiming that federal workers are telling him that you should stay with the course. the wall's important. don't do this. but yet, the white house has not been able to provide any concrete examples of the instances. he talked to thousands, he and his staff talked to thousands of union workers, none of them have told the president that would have happened. this seems to be a case where he's viewing this through a political lens and not able to sort of connect with people on a human level, so, those stories that you just saw of suffering...

Agent of a foreign power. this is sobering stuff. >> chuck, a statement from rudy giuliani. "if it was a counterintelligence investigation and it obtained any evidence, it would have to resulted in some action being taken or they are imperilling our national security. this shows how out of control they are. they, being the feds, the fbi. chuck, does he have it right there? >> i'm afraid not, brian. and a shocking development, he doesn't have it right. counterintelligence investigations are hard, they're cumbersome, they're complex and they often take a very long time. the outcome doesn't neces...

Adversary is the same thing the fbi wondered, and then reassured we have an fbi that's doing the job that american people should want them to do, that's unafraid to take evidence and look at it. now, we need to dig deeply into this. i have a lot of questions. was this a preliminary inquiry? did it turn into a full investigation? the standards, american people should know the standards to open in counter intelligence is reasonable suspicion. standards to open a full investigation in counter intelligence is specific and articulate facts. so we need to understand that distinction and where this w...

In counter intelligence. it was about the russians, what we haven't known until tonight, if this is accurate, is that it looks like the president's name, donald j. trump was in the subject line of a counter intelligence case. that is just, it is unprecedented. >> so -- >> and it's scary but there we are. >> okay. you have a technical knowledge here for a second. what you said is so, there is two kinds of inquiries,inquiry second one? >> full investigation. >> what i'm hearing from you is that these are very established categories, this is done, this is not done lightly, that they are distinct ...