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Russians would know that. and that would potentially be leverage they can use. >> well, exactly. that is i think under the rubic of counter intelligence implications. is exactly the point. this is standard operating procedure for the russians. is to seek and exert leverage if they can. i don't know the details here. this just from what is out there, this to me is something to be drn concerned about. >> always good to have you on. up next a 2016 kapd date take on the latest 2020 presidential hopeful. kamala harris. -ah, the old crew!

Roger stone. so, steve, how do you see all of this connecting? >> well, the manhattan madam part admittedly might be a bit out of my expertise. but i think the hard thing that mueller has to do here and of course he's uniquely qualified, as is his team, is move from all these pieces of information, many of which have significant counterintelligence implications. what are key people doing. where is money moving. what are the connections back to russia. what malfeasance is going on. in moving from simply counterintelligence stuff, which is basically common sense suspicions and following patterns...

You look at this reporting about the russians having contact with campaign fishlgs at the republican convention. the russian didn't have to try to get meetings with the campaign officials like we've seen happen in the past. campaign officials were actively seeking out meetings with the russians. you have to wonder, for example, why would you want to meet with a former spy? why would you want to meet with the russian ambassador to the u.s. what were you talking about other than something that didn't have to do with this administration? >> steve, what sam says is correct, i mean, some people wou...

That's a really complicated. because there is legal implications, there is certainly counterintelligence implications. hopefully, mueller is trying to get to the bottom of that slippery slope. first you have to understand how the russians work. in the united states, for example, somebody reaches out to the fbi with a foreign intelligence matter and the fbi usually says, well, cia handles that, vice versa, cia has foreign intelligence matter -- but that's not the way it works in russia. everybody works for vladimir putin. so you know you can say, well, the ambassador wasn't an intelligence offi...