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Committees. at the same time we have learned giuliani is at the center of the counterintelligence probe. where federal officials are looking into everything from possible financial entanglement with alleged corrupt ukrainian figures to counter intelligence concerns raised by some of the business ties. >> thank you. appreciate that. joining me now. phillip bump. national correspondent for "washington post." and guy smith. special adviser to president clinton during his impeachment. thank you for coming in. this was a huge week. so many details what's going on between the administration and ukra...

Was directed to lay low after he raised concerns about giuliani's efforts and his dismay that pompeo would not stand up to protect ousted ambassador to ukraine maria vonovich. >> the july 25th telephone call was not some kind of one off. and while rudy jewgiuliani has n at the forefront. he's at the center of a counter intelligence probe where federal officials are looking into

Link of the ukraine policy. can you explain that? and do you expect the president to do anything? >> with rudy giuliani, we're essentially seeing the michael cohen story. he's already emerged as the president's main envoy in this effort to conduct, you know, somewhat of a shadow foreign policy campaign as it relates to ukraine. so, that's obviously one of the main reasons why he's under scrutiny and why he could -- you know, the heat could turn up further on him depending on what we hear from congressional testimony. two other really important things are that, one, he is under criminal investi...

Back. so the question becomes why meep says i wasn't working for turkey. assuming he's telling the truth, who else would want ghoulan returned? >> this is exactly right. as andy was saying, starting an investigation, i would think of it as asking a question, do we have a basis to open the investigation and, if so, what is going on here? exactly what you're saying. what was mr. giuliani doing? who was he working for? what level of knowledge did he have about what the foreign government authorities were trying to do and so that is what i assume that the fbi is trying to sort out. the facts are v...

And says, you should give him back. the question is why ? he says i wasn't working for turkey. who would want him returned? >> this right. as andy was saying, starting an investigation, i would think, asking a question. what is going on here? what was mr. giuliani doing? who was he working for? what level of knowledge did he have about what the foreign government authorities were trying to do? that's what i'm assuming that the fbi is trying to sort out. the facts are confusing. but that's typical with a counterintelligence probe because the adversaries are trying to make it difficult for what'...