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Pain on someone, either to punish them or force them to say or do something. isn't this torture, what you were doing? >> there are a number of thing on the record about this. first is a piece of paper, a binding paper from the justice department, the office of legal department that said waterboarding and ten other techniques were legal. the second thing i would tell you is this is one of the most thoroughly reviewed covert action programs in the history of the agency. there were thorough investigations conducted by john durham from 2009 to 2012 regarding the legality of all of this. in the end...

Pain on someone, either to punish them or force them to say or do something. isn't this torture, what you were doing? >> there are a number of thing on the record about this. first is a piece of paper, a binding paper from the justice department, the office of legal department that said waterboarding and ten other techniques were legal. the second thing i would tell you is this is one of the most thoroughly reviewed covert action programs in the history of the agency. there were thorough investigations conducted by john durham from 2009 to 2012 regarding the legality of all of this. in the end...

Pain on someone, either to punish them or force them to say or do something. isn't this torture, what you were doing? >> there are a number of thing on the record about this. first is a piece of paper, a binding paper from the justice department, the office of legal department that said waterboarding and ten other techniques were legal. the second thing i would tell you is this is one of the most thoroughly reviewed covert action programs in the history of the agency. there were thorough investigations conducted by john durham from 2009 to 2012 regarding the legality of all of this. in the end...

And your other point was -- >> that the full committees were not briefed. >> yes, the full committees were not briefed and that was at presidential direction. i think one of the things that if there was anything i regret, it's that we didn't brief the full committees. we didn't have permission because of the covert action programs. we were directed to brief the intelligence leadership. i can tell you these briefings were detailed. we did not hold anything back here. they were free to ask any questions they wanted to ask and answered in detail. >> i know that your colleagues have along with you...

He has been too free, too forthcoming with information about counterterrorism issues in the past. whether he has talked too openly to the press and to former counterterrorism officials who talked to the press about things going on in the counterterrorism world. >> do you think there's any situation where it's legal to disclose to the media or the public these tales of covert action programs? >> i do not think it is ever appropriate to improperly disclose classified information to anybody who does not have legitimate access to it and has the clearances for it. >> would you provide for the commi...