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You can't do anything political. problem solved. van hollen is the ranking member on the budget committee and joins us right now. congress mapman, thank you for joining us. i got you this morning. watching you on chuck's show, "political rundown." i thought that was the answer, just stop giving any of these tax benefits to people if they're involved in politics. treat them like 501 c 3s. you can't do it. >> and the law's been clear. issa is operating in a fact free zone. we know the irs was looking at political groups both on the right and on the left. why is the irs trying to determine if you...

Van hollen is the ranking member on the budget committee and joins us right now. congress mapman, thank you for joining us. i got you this morning. watching you on chuck's show, "political rundown." i thought that was the answer, just stop giving any of these tax benefits to people if they're involved in politics. treat them like 501 c 3s. you can't do it. >> and the law's been clear. issa is operating in a fact free zone. we know the irs was looking at political groups both on the right and on the left. why is the irs trying to determine if you as an organization are involved mostly in social...

Fella who used to be the irs top dog. here he is talking about how he when he was with the irs and how tying the irs to obama care is a big mistake. >> what we did do at the time is we had -- you may remember this, bill. in the '04 and '06 election cycle there were allegations that c-3s and churches were organizing on the conservative side in ohio and there's allegations that inner city churches are publicpollti cking the democratic side. they looked at these activities. not the front end process. what happens in cincinnati is they look at applications for exempt status when they come in.

Who represents a number of the tea party groups that were targeted. good evening, gentlemen. >> good evening. >> hi, judge. >> judge jeanine: commissioner, are you aware of this kind of political targeting happening at the irs when you were the commissioner? >> no, not at all. let me just say this. in my experience everybody at the service did their level best to stay clear of politics. in fact, judge, we had an initiative in the '04 and '06 election cycles where we looked at churches and charities that were accused of politicking, those are the charities were c 3s and you may know they can't ...

Who represents a number of the tea party groups that were targeted. good evening, gentlemen. >> good evening. >> hi, judge. >> judge jeanine: commissioner, are you aware of this kind of political targeting happening at the irs when you were the commissioner? >> no, not at all. let me just say this. in my experience everybody at the service did their level best to stay clear of politics. in fact, judge, we had an initiative in the '04 and '06 election cycles where we looked at churches and charities that were accused of politicking, those are the charities were c 3s and you may know they can't ...