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What i think we could do and the reason that i've included a provision that requires a budget conference, a long overdue budget conference is there could be a substitution of some of the mandatory spending cuts such as the farm bill which would save $23 billion over ten years for some of the cuts in defense and biomedical research that are very troubling to me personally. >> have you spoken, either one of you spoken to senator reid since he rejected this compromise proposal? >> well, i have talked to a number of people in our leadership. i ti you'll see today as negotiations continue, elements...

Things have positive things in terms of future growth. but, look, we haven't said this is take it or leave it. we said, here's a whole range of things that we're willing to talk about it. >> but you have to take it or leave it -- >> it's the president who said, i'm not willing to negotiate. you have to take it or leave it. and that's simply unacceptable. >> is it acceptable to not raise the debt ceiling? >> i actually think the debt ceiling needs to be raised. if you voted for the ryan budget -- >> wait a second -- >> -- you voted for a debt ceiling increase. let me finish my thought. but the ...

But, look, we haven't said this is take it or leave it. we said, here's a whole range of things that we're willing to talk about it. which i think is more than fair. >> but you have to take it or leave it -- >> it's the president who said, i'm not willing to negotiate. you have to take it or leave it. and that's simply unacceptable. >> is it acceptable to not raise the debt ceiling? >> i actually think the debt ceiling needs to be raised. if you voted for the ryan budget -- >> wait a second -- >> -- you voted for a debt ceiling increase. let me finish my thought. but the ryan budget also conta...

Do and yet -- and the president now will have to expend political capital to explain it and make his case. yet if the republicans hold it hostage, they have a lot more to lose, don't they? >> they probably do. the problem right now is that the two sides are in completely different universes on how to move forward. the white house doesn't want to negotiate on the debt ceiling and republicans say we need to cut spending equal to the level that the debt ceiling would be raised. how this gets resolved is completely -- nobody has any idea right now and there's only a few more weeks before we hit th...

>> but they won't go after medicare because that's middle class entitlements. there's a reason why the poorest sector in our society are poor, and for the most part minorities. and it's because they don't vote. they are underrepresented in washington, d.c. and so it's -- this is just a much bigger problem that's been coming at us now for 30 or 40 years. >> well, i mean, i think it depends on your framework, brother joe. and i must say i miss my dear sister, mika. but it depends on your framework, you see. because brother tavis and i decided when we met 25 years ago we would keep alive the lega...