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>> well, it is. you have multiple condutacts of people close to trump, or at least advising trump during the campaign at certain points and russians. now, it does show the risk of having what was an unformed, i suppose you could describe it, campaign structure where you had people with varying degrees of qualifications, frankly, and even also closest to the candidate himself who were meeting, at least claiming to be speaking for trump or claiming to have access to him through this campaign. and that shows you one of the risks of having what was a largely unformed operation even as you got into...

Even also closest to the candidate himself who were meeting, at least claiming to be speaking for trump or claiming to have access to him through this campaign. and that shows you one of the risks of having what was a largely unformed operation even as you got into the transition period where you have a guy like eric prince doing the representation or even a son-in-law, right? this kind of thing, it makes sense to have people with experience and to have a structure, a decision-making structure, an oversight of all these things. because when you don't, that's where you'll end up with these stra...

Decision-making structure for foreign policy in government is a little bit directionless and whoever takes on this job needs to make sure that he or she would have a full rein over the different levers. leland: is the nsc directionless because it doesn't have a leader? obviously, you have keith kellogg, the interim nsa, but is it rudderless because you don't have a national security advisor or because you have the situation in the white house where you have competing groups, whether it be steve bannon or reince priebus or jared kushner. >> i served in the bush administration nse and president ...

Obama eight years ago, when you look at those pictures, when you listen to the words, the meeting was supposed to last 15 minutes, it lasted for an hour and a half. do you feel hopeful? >> i do. and i thought they discussed a broad range of things. they discussed foreign policy issues which is a very traditional thing. but i notice he also talked about the white house staff and and setting up your white house staff early is particularly important because that's your decision making structure and you want to make sure that in all the decisions you make that you have the kinds of information tha...

And some of the european reaction to bosnia in the 1990s. we're seeing a replay of the lost of the inability to rally an alliance and even in this case where we have rallied an alliance an inability to have a clear decision making structure. we see the trucks going their own way, the french in some ways going their own way. it's hard and i don't blim the president for this. it's phenomenon little hard to rally a multilateral force especially when the goals, when the different parties have different goals and you've got to fudge over them. >> do you think that in some ways this is inevitable gi...