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In large numbers. growth is easy. >> deficit exploded. >> we will get to that in a moment. people and productivity. neither are growing right now. there were tax cuts but not spending cuts. which means you had to reign that back in in 19s 86. it's not like this is some magic plan that is just going to create jobs without leaving us without a deficit problem. >> now bring it down to my intellectual level. you guys are very intelligent and we need you to bring it to the show. you are calling this a middle class tax cut. by most appraisals, at least initially, the middleclass does get a cut. ther...

Entitlement reform later. remember, social security and medicare are the drivers of our long-term deficit problem. and the philosophic tradition that paul ryan represents did not, does not believe those programs should exist. they believe they are infringement upon liberty. ronald reagan campaigned calling medicare socialism. so when paul ryan says we're not going to get a lot of political benefit from this, he's right. what they're arguing -- the entire vision they're arguing is not a popular vision. make government as small as possible, make taxes as low as possible. that's an uphill fight t...

Than later. >> what has changed between congressman mulvaney on the debt and budget director mulvaney when you said earlier this week, we need new deficits to increase economic growth? >> this is what's changed, is that i've come to the realization that washington is not going to solve the debt problem, the deficit problem, through spending. i had come to washington in 2011 and had hoped that would be the case, that we had a spending problem and not a revenue problem. >> you've come to that because you acknowledge that there is only so much spending you can cut? >> no. there is a political wil...

On debt and deficit. take a look. >> how can we possibly have a credible discussion about the debt and deficit and not include defense? >> more and more people are recognizing the threat to the overall economy the debt presents. >> we ran up this debt. what are we going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again? >> the debt is a problem that must be addressed sooner rather than later. >> what has changed between congressman mulvaney on the debt and budget director mulvaney when you said earlier this week, we need new deficits to increase economic growth? >> this is what's changed, is that i'v...

Here's congressman mick mulvaney on debt and deficit. take a look. >> how can we possibly have a credible discussion about the debt and deficit and not include defense? >> more and more people are recognizing the threat to the overall economy the debt presents. >> we ran up this debt. what are we going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again? >> the debt is a problem that must be addressed sooner rather than later. >> what has changed between congressman mulvaney on the debt and budget director mulvaney when you said earlier this week, we need new deficits to increase economic growth? >> th...