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It's this kind of tricky challenge. including haley, where nothing kind of really works. i mean, the question that i have for you, and we've talked about this before, is there any argument? if you're just going back in time, that would work against trump? that would resonate with some of these republican voters who've been talking to? where it's just there's never been a really good option from the start and there still isn't now? >> yeah. it's a lesson argument and more of a person. i think that what you're seeing in this primary is just a dearth of political talent among these challenges. yo...

>> it's less an argument and more of a percent. i think that what you are seeing in this primary is just a dose of political talent among these challengers. ron desantis, there was a time where there was sort of a big chunk of the republican party that wanted what i would say is to move on from trump. they wanted an alternative. and they were very at the time desantis curious. i did tons of focus groups in the beginning of 2023 listening to republican voters who are super interested in desantis and wanted to see more of him, and thought he might be a better alternative to trump. the problem wa...

To have somebody playing that role. >> again, if he actually decides he's going to go on the debate stage, fascinating stuff, steve. nick, look, if you're going to close that gap, clearly desantis thinks he can run on his record in florida. that records includes six-week abortion ban, banning gender affirming care for minors, altering school curriculums. do you consolidate the non-trump vote with that? >> look, the only way it's the nomination for ron desantis is through donald trump. the trump lane is the biggest lane in the primary. and you can see at the biggest group in polling of voters a...

I don't think there's anything about consolidating the middle of the road voters and the gop. it's about beating trump on his own terms. that's the way he can win. >> if they're desantis curious, did they want to see a strong desantis, though, right, that's where trump is going after him saying he has no personality, a lot of criticism that he doesn't have that thick enough skin. he's not tough enough to what we see with donald trump time after time after time. he talks louder, says more than anybody else wherever it is. >> look, he is a great performer, and we've seen that over and over again...

It's new. they're just -- you know, they're desantis curious. they like him, but they don't know him very well. with donald trump, good, bad, ugly, they, long ago, made their accommodations. they've long ago figured out how to rationalize donald trump's behavior. and listening to a lot of these women, they really compartmentalize his behavior. you hear them say all the time things like, "well, i don't like who he is as a person, i don't like the things he says, or i don't like how he treats women, but i do like how he ran the country. or i do like his policies." it is just -- they just -- it's...