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So with that in mind, diplomacy angle in mind that charles mentioned, if these ten were from another country, say the middle east, it would be a different situation? >> i gather, i -- traditionally the trades take place between convicted spies, who served time. not just, i'm going to rush you into a courtroom, get a guilty plea and send you off. we are looking at this from a distance saying this must be obama's investment and improved relations with the russians. so what would a trial, a lengthy trial of the spies have done? just irritate the russians? is that what he was trying to avoid? i do...

Recent years. so with that in mind, diplomacy angle in mind that charles mentioned, if these ten were from another country, say the middle east, it would be a different situation? >> i gather, i -- traditionally the trades take place between convicted spies, who served time. not just, i'm going to rush you into a courtroom, get a guilty plea and send you off. we are looking at this from a distance saying this must be obama's investment and improved relations with the russians. so what would a trial, a lengthy trial of the spies have done? just irritate the russians? is that what he was trying ...