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Subsidize them. there's a huge amount of hubris and arrogance in that. why isn't there some kid working on cold fusion? why do you know it's wind and why will you allocate so much of our money to that. >> i think what he's saying is that the department of energy which has funded so much of the critical breakthrough technologies when it comes to energy won't play venture capital firm trying to pick companies and invest in them. it will give grants to universities, university of chicago, you know, pick your favorite state university and say, you do the research on fusion, on fission. >> we've be...

He sees mining coal as a commodity game. it's just get the stuff out of the ground as cheaply and quickly as possible. that has to change. we need to think about coal in a different way. >> factor in the lives and safety of the people doing this work in figuring out the cost of it. jeff god dell, rolling stone contributor, author of "dirty coal." thanks for joining us. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. oklahoma's republican senator tom coburn is not only proud to have blocked the extension of unemployment benefits this week, he is raring to go on a spree when congress reconvenes becaus...

That is an explosion beyond proportion. >> time to turn to jack goodell, the author of "dirty coal" and "how to cool the planet." thank you for your time. >> thanks for having me. >> paying the fines imposed for these violations or paying to improve conditions to keep the mines safe and miners safe, which is cheaper at this point for a company like massey? >> well, that is sort of a no-brainer. it is much cheaper for them to take the fines. since 1995 they have had $2 million in fines for safety violations. less than half of that they have actually paid. if you average that out over 15 years w...