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Sphere because ultimately again impeachment really is a political process. it is not a legal one. and so they are kind of fighting on two fronts. fighting in the courts and then they are fighting for the public opinion. and i think in trump world that is sometimes even important. all rudy really needs to do is sow doubt and chaos. and he's good at that. >> and the focus of rudy giuliani, focus of the president in large part has been on this term collusion. scarcely a day goes by when the president doesn't say on twitter or in a speech no collusion. we've seen the gold poal posts of moved by th...

First knew about these tapes said nothing in the conversation suggests he had any knowledge of it in advance. in the big scheme of things, it's powerful, exculpatory evidence. it's like picking up a book and reading the middle pages. you don't know what happened before or after. you can't trust what rudy giuliani says or the president. i'm not sure we can trust what the cohen side is saying about this either. but listen to rudy giuliani on fox last night. listen to his language, his client is the president of the united states. >> i question the strategy of doing this, of trying to make a tape...

>> correct. so, i'm all over that. and i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing, which will be -- >> listen, what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> don't pay with cash? >> no, no, no, no. i got it. no, no, no, no. >> the audio at the end is muddled. it's unclear whether mr. trump suggests paying with cash or not paying. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani, says no payment ever came from his client, telling the "washington post," it sounds like cohen is explaining something to trump that he doesn't understand. and now, giuliani disputes that the recording shows mr...

I've got -- no, no, no. >> the audio at the end is muddled and unclear whether mr. trump suggests paying with cash or not paying. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani, has said no payment ever came from his client. giuliani tells the "washington post" it sounds like cohen is explaining something to trump that he doesn't understand, and now giuliani disputes that the recording shows mr. trump knew about the mcdougal deal at all. >> i don't think anyone can suggest that this represents anything where the president did anything wrong. i question the strategy of doing this, of trying to make a ...

You put out a tape of your client. you then make believe it says something it doesn't say. believe me, there were three other versions of this before we got to this one that were even worse. the transcript, if you have the patience to analyze it, and now he is saying give the ball to my client. >> laura: i don't mean to harp on the clinton connection here but it is interesting that cohen chooses the longtime confidant, booster, defender of the clintons. after everything that happened during the campaign, to represent him. i mean, you know how this deal goes, rudy. was cohen trying to send some...