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The ability to pay higher wages. so the question is, we could disagree all day on this. the question is if i had a lower tax rate as a business guy for 30 years, would i raise wages? absolutely. >> but the record doesn't support that's true. so you come from ohio, a state where there's a lot of manufacturing. there was a lot more than there is now. when factories relocate to bangladesh or china or vietnam, they don't do it because of the tax rate. everybody uses ireland as an example. they go to other countries because -- >> because labor is so cheap. and labor is going to continue to be cheap...

Of jeremy bash's careful legal analysis here. but it sounds like we have another piece of evidence today that there were ties between the kremlin and the trump campaign. with that in place, how is it possible that what politico reports today could be true. they're nearing a point where they'll wave a white flag and say, we'll leave the question of collusion to bob mueller? >> i think it would be a mistake for them to do that. obviously, they shouldn't make any conclusions that the evidence they found doesn't support. if they aren't at the end of their investigation, they should object, forcefu...

>> jeremy, i want to end this sort of going back to something that garrett was talking about that i think is important. most of the american people won't sit down and go through the fine details of a tax plan, but when you say 401(k), it gets a lot of people thinking, listening, trying to figure out what's going on. where are we with this, as you see it? and with this tweet where he said he's not going to support these changes? and it raises quet again, what does this plan really look like? >> that's exactly right. to paul's point it shows just how disengaged the president is on finer policy p...

And even paul ryan said they're not going -- he's not going to send anything to the floor that the president doesn't support. and it's a curious situation because you have the freedom caucus folks who i thought would be going nuts about this criticizing ryan and mcconnell for not being leaders. and kind of tacitly saying at least the president's doing something. >> uh-huh. >> so i think this is an example of -- well, potentially two things or both. one, president trump saying, you know what, you're not going to deal with me, you're republicans, i'm now republican, good, i'll deal with these pe...

Today the white house chose to bash senator sanders and the plan he supports. >> i can't think of anything worse than government being more involved in health care. the president doesn't support and and america doesn't support it or bernie sanders would be sitting in the office today. he didn't make it through the primary, he didn't make it into the oval. i think that's a pretty clear indication of what america wants to see and it's not a single pair system. >> joining me now whereby vermont senator bernie sanders. i was reading conservative conch of your announcement today and watching the wh...