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I believe paul manafort was held there for a period of time. it's considered to be a very secure place. "el chapo" escaped for a number of times, they wanted to throw him in something where he wouldn't have that opportunity again. this is supposed to be a top-notch facility. again, how did it happen? that investigation has to be launched soon. sdp >> that's strange. that's strange. let me come to you, maria, because that's strange. i have a lot of friends who are police officers, my godfather is a police officer. i have no personal knowledge of the way it works, but my understanding was always...

More likely to commit suicide are pretrial detainees and within the first few days or weeks of their detention. and that's exactly where jeffrey epstein was. it's only been a couple of weeks, if that, since he was held without bail. since he had his bail hearing and bail was denied, but far and away, detainees, people awaiting their trial, and particularly people charged and convicted of sexes of sex offenses are at high risk of suicide, more than prisoners who have been convicted and serving their sentence, at super max or minimum security. >> and knowing general what our layman's knowledge o...

It sounds odd to me. >> so i just got off the phone with one of my sources who spent 31 years in prison and was in the prison in the same block as bill cosby. that's a pretty high-security facility. bill kcosby is checked on every 15 minutes. the other thing the person told me is there is no place to hang yourself in a prison cell. there is just no place to put anything. just go into a room that's kind of like, i don't know, an office space right here at msnbc. i walked in and i was like, there is no place to hang yourself. so it's illogical. he also said that -- i said, how could something li...

Allegedly commit suicide? >> listen, joy, i imagine they will have to put out some kind of statement over the course of today. whether you're going to get definitive answers on those questions specifically will be a big issue. the important thing to remember about this facility is it's the metropolitan facility here in manhattan. it is not an official-run or state-run facility. it's a federal-run facility, department of justice. you would also expect to hear from the department of justice on this. you can imagine there will be an investigation launched. the big question, how is it that someone...

Never stop watching this pepper. we just heard from maria that someone in the case of bill cosby was watching him every 15 minutes. something about this is wrong. >> there will be an investigation mostly because epstein's estate or family may actually have a case against the metropolitan detention center itself. i know it's not what we're talking about in the concept of civil liability because we're thinking of epstein's victims. but they will investigate because they're looking at potential liability. prisoners sue all the time and especially in cases of suicide, they sue because even pretria...