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Collar is legal. those are all legal acts in zimbabwe. >> but it became illegal when he was shot on grounds that didn't have a -- >> from my understanding of zimbabwean law -- >> which is extensive. >> i will say that it appears that the main crime was that it was -- shot in an area that did not have a quota for lions. >> and perhaps lured from a safe area, too. >> lured from a safe area, yeah, but it's the quota issue. so that becomes is that comparable to when our hunters on a fall november day wander in the forests of michigan and they shoot a dough when they don't have a dough permit. >> c...

That one can hire, for example, in zim baub beewee, that apparently you are supposed to trust and make these legal kills. my question too, one of the questions would be at the end of the day, as a hunter do you not have to be responsible for your own actions? >> absolutely. i think it's anything -- even people who don't hunt you go on a vacation take a trip, somewhere that you are not used to being, everyone would look to reviews and the best information we can find before we make those decisions. is it plausible that something could have happened out of a hunter's control, you know not even m...

84% of gun owners want reform. so -- >> let me ask you that, sandy. with those numbers what would you say to lawmakers who are rigid in old-way thinking? >> well, i think they're not educating themselves. they're not finding out the statistics. they're not digging deep enough. they're not going out to their constituency and asking. and it is going to take a groundswell of americans to come forward and write to their congressmen and their senators and even the president and say we're ready for reform. nobody is challenging the second amendment. no one. no one. and yet that's constantly thrown o...

You say to lawmakers who are rigid in old-way thinking? >> well, i think they're not educating themselves. they're not finding out the statistics. they're not digging deep enough. they're not going out to their constituency and asking. and it is going to take a groundswell of americans to come forward and write to their congressmen and their senators and even the president and say we're ready for reform. nobody is challenging the second amendment. no one. no one. and yet that's constantly thrown out there. and i think it's thrown out there to scare americans who are gone owners like ourselves ...

Of course not. i'm a hunter. or at least i used to be. don't hunt anymore. i'm a former hunter. we own guns. there are people that use target practice. but there is no reason to not come to the table and have a discussion that is sensible and logical and come to an agreement that works for the american public's safety. >> and sandy, do you think your daughter would be alive tonight if we'd had different laws on the books? do you think that could have been prevented? >> i do. anytime somebody can go on the internet and order 6,000 rounds of ammunition and that doesn't get flagged and questioned...