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>> right. >> but you're speaking to whether it's the paycheck fairness act, the gender parody, or they also had a session this week there on marriage equality and gay rights and understanding that in the context of civil rights, something you've also spoken about. what is the challenge there? what did you learn from your work for lbj, about how you can take something that's become popular in spirit, and try to enact it so it is popular on the floor of the congress? >> there was, at the time i was there, a live, live energy about getting these things done. that energy is not there today. it is,...

Civil rights. >> right. >> but you're speaking to whether it's the paycheck fairness act, the gender parody, or they also had a session this week there on marriage equality and gay rights and understanding that in the context of civil rights, something you've also spoken about. what is the challenge there? what did you learn from your work for lbj, about how you can take something that's become popular in spirit, and try to enact it so it is popular on the floor of the congress? >> there was, at the time i was there, a live, live energy about getting these things done. that energy is not there...

These limits. so i think -- >> go ahead. >> as i was going to say, i think it's going to make things worse. i think this is a continuation of citizens united and vallejo, and it's just really, just we're lurching toward plutocracy. american people, if we don't organize, don't push back, we're going to end up in an oligarchy. i can see it if we don't start organizing and roll this situation back. >> what would you say to people who say, you're a member of the house progressive caucus. there are is certain things you would like to see done, things like minimum wage, things important to your cons...

And apologize to us. >> we have been trying to ask grimm the questions about this in the city, and here. and he really hadn't been responsive, i saw it as an opportunity. he was there talking to me, and i thought it was a perfect opportunity to ask him a question that we wanted to ask him for the last two or so weeks. >> govny reminds me of the time that zell miller threatened to have a dual with me on television. i wish we still lived in a time we could challenge a man to a dual. for a while there i thought he meant it. i told the producers, don't push this guy. we'll be standing on the hudso...

Debate within the democratic party with some making the argument to him, listen, it is better to make it as a whole, don't push the individual members even if they are not doing -- going your way on this issue. what do you think with -- what do you think about that strategically? >> well, i've been keeping my focus tightly on what we need to do in the house and senate. and frankly, i found the single most effective way to do that is to help ensure my colleagues in the house and senate meet with these families. the newtown families are extraordinary, extraordinary, faced with unimaginable loss ...