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And they say bill clinton lied about this. and that's why you don't see the president dropping precipitously in the polls. philippe: on the podium where sarah sanders comes out or sean spicer on that first day. howie: he says a lot of this is fake news. martha: it might never catch up with him. there is a different between legal jeopardy and political consequences. you heard brian kilmeade say trump supporters don't care about this and he's right. but at some point he needs to go to the american people and the world and say here is the crisis and i need you to be with us. philippe: it might be...

This? >> and yes, depending upon which side you are listening to who is criticizing this, and again, criticism from both sides, and it is a horrible situation, and they are saying that jesus is not an immigrant, and the other side is saying that you can't let the people stay, and there are risks, and are you really going to the deport them now? you will get a terrible view depending upon who you are listening to, but the administration has deported a lot of people, but you have to look at the numbers in perspective, too. in the last fiscal year, you seeing the numbers of nearly a quarter milli...

In your mind, how much of a big deal is this? >> i've heard ofç this amy lowy before. let me just make a couple quick points. one, the way the basic shape goes now is that it drops very sharply. in the last couple years faster than any time in the post-world war ii period. for a deficit that's much lower than you're four-year average, then it begins to rise again. it's kind of got the shape of the nike swoosh. >> thank you for that metaphor. >> but we actually -- i'm going to do this here, we just shouldn't do it. >> wow. >> exactly the wrong way to do it. it should be a much more gradual de...

The iraq war in particular was quite counterproductive and bin laden's organization is losing the war of ideas in the muslim world. >> do you think they are? >> no doubt, support for al qaeda and suicide bombing is dropping precipitously. but at the end of the day, this has been a small group of people and al qaeda values one recruit more than a thousand followers, or supporters. so it's not like they're going to go out of business just because they're losing popular support, but they are. i think if we had this conversation five, ten years from now, i think their appeal is fading. >> was ther...

Laden's organization is losing the war of ideas in the muslim world. >> do you think they are? >> no doubt, support for al qaeda and suicide bombing is dropping precipitously. but at the end of the day, this has been a small group of people and al qaeda values one recruit more than a thousand followers, or supporters. so it's not like they're going to go out of business just because they're losing popular support, but they are. i think if we had this conversation five, ten years from now, i think their appeal is fading. >> was there something you started out, an idea in your mind that you star...