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Eased pressure on the investigation. just having covered donald trump for as long as you have, why does he seem to not be able to keep it in? why does he seem to be so open and overt about announcing his fealty to russia? >> because, while donald understands right from wrong and guilt, he really creates his own reality. and he has no moral core. so saying things just come out of him, without any filter. and let's not forget who else was in the room. the only other person in that room was a russian agent posing as a news photographer who brought a gadget bag with who knows what kind of intellig...

Himself, he had to say it. he said to lester holt, he's the reason he's being investigated encounter intelligence. i wonder as we're digesting this at msnbc and people around the united states, a lot of reaction is shock an american president being investigated whether he is working in the interest of a foreign country, shocking. as a former state department spokesperson, what do you suspect our allies are thinking as they're digesting this? what are foreign ambassadors thinking as they read this story this morning? >> it used to be the united states was not operating on equal footing with man...

Counter-intelligence investigation and obtained any evidence it would have resulted in some action or they are emperilling our national security. there typically are two different lanes, the counter intelligence investigation lane and criminal investigation lane. am i right in saying counter intelligence investigations don't necessarily result in someone being arrested, they're counter intelligence because they're trying to ascertain information? >> yeah. both barbara and malcolm have properly characterized the nature and purpose of the counter intelligence case, which is to identify, penetrat...

This counter-intelligence and criminal investigation were opened to scrutinize the conduct of the sitting president of the united states while he's in office. let's bring in our mega panel to break this down. a former state department advisor, rick wilson, former strategist, author of "everything trump touches dies." >> and author of "it's even worse than you think." former assistant general and malcolm williams, author. and benjamin, joining by phone former assistant to counter intelligence at the fbi, frank. thank you for calling in to talk to us this morning. so many things about this are e...

Australians or brits or others. all of that working together could -- this is really the hard part to get your arms around, literally our allies may have been helping and our intelligence community may have been supporting a case and evidence development against our own president. >> we know the george papadopoulos information was sourced when he was meeting with a professor from another country where that information then winds up back in the hands of the fbi. i want to go -- i will come to you in a minute, i want to go to malcolm quickly. we've been at this almost three years, 2 1/2 years, t...