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Can he be in some way -- you know, is he in violation of the law? >> so, i think that he -- if he were to have made his judgment about recommending the firing of comey motivated by wanting to obstruct the russia investigation, in clear violation of his recusal, that would be an ethics violation and potentially a violation of department of justice rules. and the remedy for that would be removal from office. that, of course, would require a congress willing to impeach him or a president willing to fire him. neither of those things seems to be the case. but the question is, what exactly did jeff ...

Related to russia. is he in violation of the law? >> i think if he were to have made his judgment about recommending the firing of comey motivated by wanting to obstruct the russia investigation in clear violation of recusal would be an ethics violation. the remedy is removal of office which means a president willing to fire him or a congress willing to impeach him. neither seems to be the case. what exactly did jeff sessions know about the rationale for firing jim comey. it is imperative we understand to know whether he behaved ethically or not. >> what does this tell us about the way the pre...

>> well, john, i certainly think it violates all sorts of different norms about how you govern yourself as the chief executive of our country, but i don't think we've actually heard enough to conclude that it violates the federal law against obstruction. there are different types of obstruction, but without going through all of the different legal hoops, the bottom line is you have to show that the president influenced, corruptly influenced either a witness or an official proceeding, and that's just difficult to prove with the facts that we have. now, if we find out what actually was said in t...

This russia investigation to lessen this act, this was an enormous, enormous backfire, at the center of it is jeff sessions. the attorney general, who recuse himself from the investigation because he wasn't entirely honest with congress and the washington poses a good article this morning by jennifer lubin, in this story, we will put up some of it, norman eisen who is an ethics expert said the fact that he broke his krimt could sometimes in itself be an ethics violation. is there trouble for jeff sessions on the horizon? >> it certainly seems like it. we certainly, we also had some democratic ...

Reputation and whether or not republicans in congress might be upset with what his actions were get the best of him. once you open that pandora's box i think you saw it was very hard to manage. i think that's what he let get in his -- let his own ego about his reputation get in the way. >> we heard from and i think it's remember not to raise that and not give him that opportunity. so i would not expect that you would hear from her on this particular piece. >> jennifer palmer who again is decidedly not on capitol hill and seems too relaxed to be on capitol hill. thank you very much for being on...