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Perry may have sent a text to mark meadows just after the polls closed, in your mind, do you believe that trump was aware of these communications, many of which were flowing through mark meadows strategizing how to ignore the will of the voters? >> i'm sure that he was aware. all of this is consistent with the trump dynamic that's been at play with him his entire life. he has this sort of evil charisma where he can either attract people who are willing to do extreme things or he can persuade them, that it's okay to do extreme things in order to please him. so there's this cycle that gets set u...

Causes, but despite being in prison for nearly half a century, the public fascination with his twist, evil charisma, you might say, and ability to brainwash dozens of young men and women has never abated. his very name becoming synonymous with murder, manipulation, fear and helter skelter. joining me now is veteran journalist shelly ross who produced manson's first ever jailhouse interview. shelly, thanks very much for joining us today. i want to ask you first why you think manson has had such a lasting impact, why his story has maintained fascination for so many years, decades. >> it was the ...