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>> no. >> no? >> he didn't know. >> i hear you. >> i'm not going to get into the hypothetical. >> okay. because you get into the hypothetical about mueller and comey. >> that confuses the hell out of people. >> if fact-counting, we have never had anybody with the level of mendacity he has. >> it's in the eye of the beholder. >> no, facts are not in the eye of the beholder. >> jeffrey toobin is back with me. also joining us, josh campbell. jeff toobin, we've seen a lot of rudy guiliani on tv. >> yes, ma'am. >> now he's talking about throwing bricks at mueller if they don't wrap this up in a cou...

Here. so rudi is stuck doing what? >> he is making speeches. i think the real argument isn't the lawyers as garrett said. i don't see why the mueller team cares at all. they're going to keep doing the work in secret. i think the audience is trump supporters and surrogates to signal it is time to go to the mattress. >> this is not the only wild comment guiliani made in the past 24 hours. i feel i need to caveat that. he has been infamous since he started working for the president. last night said facts are not in black and white. that's not the first time he's done it. >> if fact counting is an...

Or better than anybody would in his position, and he's remaining focused on the job. >> we've seen men in that position attacked from all sides of the core of their being including obama. we saw it with bush. we saw it with clinton. nobody ever spoke to people and dealt with humanity the way this president does. >> maybe nobody has been as honest as him. also if you look at it, if you look at it, their achievements don't come close to the achievements he's had. >> i think it's a little early on that. and if fact-counting is kneelan we've never had anybody with the level of mendacity that he ha...

>> that was the original intention of the meeting. it turned out to be a meeting of another subject and it was not pursued at all. >> and even the question of whether the president played a role in drafting a statement about that meeting has changed from no to yes. those specifics are damning enough. the overarching reality is this administration repeatedly insists you are entitled to your own facts. >> you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer our press secretary give alternative facts to that. >> i think it's very important to point out that in a situation like this, you ...

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