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Rolling stone dubbed him a music guru. he has been featured in nba arenas and is out with his debut album "story to tell." we have another discussed and known creator with us our friend michelle goldberg from her "new york times" columns to msnbc appearances, being part of a pulitzer prize winning team of journalists, author of three books including "the means of reproduction." great to have you both here. >> thank you. >> glad to be here. >> it is great to be here. >> what's up what's up? >> michelle, what is on your fallback list? >> i have been covering this kind of moral panic over critica...

Theory into the lesson. >> that is wild. body cam for educational content. that is wild. >> yeah. i think these are people who my guess is are not excited about body cams in other contexts. >> in a safety context. right. that is a lot. it sounds very like lil orwell. j. period thanks for coming through. >> glad to be here. >> what is on your fallback list? >> my fallback is, you know, really people in the online discourse who lack empathy. what i see is a lot of people who are, you know, enjoying the sound of their own voice and sort of quick to criticize but slow to see another perspective in...

Of reagan. >> my fall back list, i think in fairness two things. one is the president's son, donald trump, jr. has a new book out in which he said to my irritation and perhaps that of everybody, he sort of compared his and his family's sacrifice and what they had to do to win and make operable the presidency to those who had sacrificed their lives who were buried at the arlington national cemetery. and, you know, i think we all get carried away, exaggerations happen, and i think sometimes in america the higher up and more powerful you go very quickly, the more you lose a little perspective, an...

Is taking broadway by storm right now, jeremy o'harris. he's also won playwrighting accolades and we're joined by our friend michelle goldberg, member of a pulitzer prizewinning team and author of "the means of reproduction" which won the ballard book prize. very exciting and i saw your show and we'll get to that but let's start with what's your on fall back list. >> my number one thing on my fall back list is probably because i think everyone at trump's administration need to fall back about talking about famous pop stars who should be released from jail. >> and this is really wild. i happen ...

Administration. >> and the whole reason we accede to the legitimacy of this administration is we are willing to recognize constitutional provisions over the popular will. you know, and then as an aside at every point in this process at least since the revelation of this quid pro quo plot, impeachment has had more popular support than the donald trump presidency ever has. >> stephen miller was on my fall back list and his e-mail chain. again, the sense that the white house could come out publicly and say we know this man, we know him deeply. and we know he hates bigotry, obviously. his name is ...