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Reactionary. is that kind of standard stuff or is this potentially damaging for the republican party and their major donors? >> well, i talked to a few people about this and what i was told is it's standard to try and do this kind of fear tactic. that actually works. and so they're right on both counts also that the major donors are ego-driven and the minor donors are fear-driven. i think also what we're getting a glimpse of here is those people that were in the room watching the power point presentation, those were not the super, super major donors but people who want to feel like major donor...

Republicans. it's the gop referring to their own donors as ego-driven and reactionary. is that kind of standard stuff, or is this potentially damaging for the republican party and their major donors? >> well, i talked to a few people about this, and what i was told is it's standard to try and do this kind of fear tactic. that actually works. and so they're right on both counts also that the major donors are ego-driven and the minor donors are fear-driven. i think also what we're getting a glimpse of here is those people that were in the room watching the power point presentation, those were no...

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Question where that money comes from. >> isn't it striking that an administration that passed health care reform, massive stimulus to try to grow the economy is in, its, using a fear tactic, talking about karl rove, chamber of commerce and secret money into the campaign? >> it's just the facts. karl rove, who believed quite frankly that the 2004 race had potential to derail our democracy before he started running a group that we now both agree, i think, has a chance to derail democracy. they spent $50 million. chamber is spending $50 million. if you add it up, it's $399 million. nobody knows w...