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Whack, and it would not sustain the kind of attack that donald trump and other republicans continue to lodge against the institutions of government. no, i'm not convinced just because it happened to hold in 2020 means it would hold in 2024. >> right. i mean, we know that there was more to those private conversations between pence and trump. if only we could be a fly on the wall or the head, to know what was said. fernand made a reference to this. trump is vicious. there's also reporting now that the former president is looking at trying to get a challenger to mitch mcconnell. he wants to get m...

Danger? >> well, again, he's creating a litmus test, you're either with me or against me. it doesn't matter. the question is, are you with me now? that's how cults function. that's how terrorists function. they spoke of a hostage situation that could have ended in bloodshed. we have not seen any real contrition from the party itself, from the republican party, to try to make amends in that post-january 6th period. i agree -- it is a perilous time. in fact the peril may never be greater. >> eugene robinson, donna edwards and fernand amani, thank you for joining us. bob woodward and robert cos...